[the interviewer for kjhk is, i believe, michael
weiner, who co-hosts a weekly lo-fi show on kjhk, called "the
lo-fi aesthetic." kjhk also does a netcast. i recorded the
following interview via real audio and transcribed it. i'm missing
the last few minutes though. hopefully, however, that will be
forthcoming. enjoy! --jonathan maier 3/22/97]
kjhk: hello, we're back, uh, on our little lo-fi experiment show here. joining me is, is john darnelle-
john: darnielle
kjhk: darnielle, i'm sorry-of the mountain goats. how are you doing this afternoon?
john: i am fine, thank you.
kjhk: how was the drive in?
john: it was fine. can you shut that door? i'm kind of phobic about open doors.
kjhk: sure. okay. you'll be playing at the replay lounge tonight.
john: yes, i will. am i audible? do i need to be closer to that mic?
kjhk: uh, no. i think you're coming in just fine.
john: okay.
kjhk: um, let's see i have a couple of questions prepared, and then will see how this goes. when did you start recording?
john: um..
khjk: the mountain goats
john: um. . . 91 i think.
kjhk: okay. how did you choose the name "the mountain goats?"
john: um. . . i don't really know, i mean-i was-the first recordings i did, uh, i was working at metropolitan state hospital in norwalk. i was making money hand over fist and so i bought any record that struck me as remotely interesting at that point in time-hello there-um, uh, and so i bought this-i started following this philosophy that a couple friends of mine have that says if you have a really strong reaction against something, you should buy the record, right? and find out why. and if it's really strong-if you hear and you say "ughhhhhhh! it makes me sick!" like the people who hear the cure and can't stand the way robert smith sings, they should buy cure records and, and get more acquainted with them, because you really only hate something if you're indefferent to it, is the way i think about it. so anyway, uh, i'd always hated frankie valie and the four seasons. and uh, so i bought their complete singles collection, and it turned out they were not so bad, and i thought i would do versions of it myself because i had nothing better to do and i had bunches of money. so i bought a guitar and a tape-deck. i bought a hawaiian , uh, slide guitar and decided i was going to record all these things. and it wasn't for anything in particular. i wasn't hooked up with any, anybody who put out tapes or anything, i just thought it would be a funny idea and i, just landed on the name of the mountain goats because i had been screaming jay hawkings and he says, uh, he mentions mountain goats in a song called "big yellow coat", so, and the more i thought about it, the more i thought it was appropriate because i had been learning things about mountain goats, like how they, uh, every year thousands of mountain goats plummet to their death because they have these special hooves that are adapted. they can climb almost vertical angles, but they get really cocky, because they can do this. and i mean, it's like, if there's a mountain over here, on the left, and there's a mountain goat over here, and there's a cleft in between, right? if they jump and land on an angle, that's uh, i don't know anything about angles, so. . . an extremely steep angle, their hooves are made in such a way that they can grab as though they were claws grabbing rock, but they're not. it's just the way the hooves are. so, many of them will see a nice jump and go "ya! i can jump that!" right? and then they jump. and, but if they hit a solid vertical wall they're not going to be able to cleave and they fall, and this is the major killer of mountain goats, and i just thought that was pretty amazing, that, ya know, you have that sort of vanity in the animal kingdom. i thought it was great, so, so uh, i'm just an animal fiend, so i, so i wanted an animal name that, that-and i also like the resonance of it. it's a, it's a, it's an iambic, uh, uh dipod-the mountain goats-right?
kjhk: right.
john: so, and the english majors will like hearing that and anybody else will wonder what i'm talking about.
khjk: right, that's, that's interesting that you bring up the fact of uh, english majors
john: uh-huh
kjhk: in this whole tape scene movement. andy here is an english major. i myself was an english major. uh, so--
john: and you both see how much money it's already brought you?
kjhk: as a matter of fact, yes.
john: money and joy.
kjhk: so, why uh, why, why are so many english majors attracted. . .
john: to music?
kjhk: to, well, this, this particular home, home recording-
john: well, i think probably because, if you're an english major who is into writing songs, then you want to write fairly literate songs, and that cancels out much popular appeal, right? um, except sporadically, ya know, uh, you get the occasional aberration who can write a poppy enough hook, and can, uh, or get away with it, like bob dillon, right? or leonard cohen, but he's not making a whole lot of money. so, uh, but i mean i think that's why. i think it's an interesting branch of literature that also allows a lot less, allows for a lot, a lot more lazy approach to things than do novels or poetry, and the poetry scene is in such horrible disarray that if you want to write something like poetry, you'd do better to go into song than poetry, 'cause the state of american poetry is, is just in shambles, ya know.
kjhk: uh-huh. do you write poetry?
john: i used to. i, i stopped writing poetry when i started writing songs, more or less.
kjhk: do you write characters and use them throughout different songs, or just--
john: ya!
kjhk: you do?
john: uh-huh, i mean i don't give them names or anything,
kjhk: but, the different--
john: like the 'alpha guy'. . . there's the 'alpha couple'
kjhk: there's, there's an alpha couple,
john: ya
kjhk: the same couple, the same throughout all the "alpha" songs?
john: generally speaking. once in a while i cheat, 'cause i just have a title i want to use, but almost all the songs are the same 'alpha couple,' and there's a specific thing that's going on with them.
kjhk: have, have you written a story line, and then you, you use that to write the songs? or. . .
john: no! that's what's great about it, though. if you just have like, the bare bones, like you know what's, how it's supposed to end, right? and so you write songs and you think of these characters. well, you don't, but i do, um, uh, and, and uh, ya know, then you surprise yourself. i mean, it was supposed to end in divorce. it ended, uh, the last one is on a very obscure compilation, which is horribly unfair, but um, but, uh--
kjhk: is that that theme park song?
john: ya, that's, that's it.
kjhk: actually i think i have that here.
john: there's the last one, although other ones came out after it, but, but in the narrative line, that's the end, right? and they were supposed to get a divorce. the whole thing was supposed to be about them moving up to a divorce, but then they didn't get a divorce. uh, she just bailed.
kjhk: did you write them in order?
john: no, no.
kjhk: no? uh, what about the other series? there's the "going to". . .
john: yeah. . .
kjhk: that would be a series?
john: that's real loose, though. it's real loose.
kjhk: different characters?
john: yeah, there, there's no main "going to" character.
kjhk: uh, the "orange ball" series and the "pure"--
john: the "orange ball" is super-duper, look, really they're not related, and neither are the ones with the "pure" title. those tend to be like, like, uh. . . out of any series at all, something that's not even thematically connected to the other stuff i'm writing about usually.
kjhk: what, what are the thematic connections of, of those series? are there any?
john: ummm. no, there's, there's a thematic connection between the ones that aren't in sequence, right? i mean the ones that are out of any series tend to all be about issues of loss, right? um, of some sort or another. and, then, uh, ya know "pure love"-what's the one on the simon joyner split? "pure heat," right? um, these are, these are single stories that are kind of, kind of intently focused in way that i think i don't force myself to be on the other ones, that i, i let them be looser, because i think looser, generally is better, but it's also less accessible, ya know? and uh, the "pure" songs tend to be more immediate, and people like 'em, although they never remember the titles.
kjhk: (laughter) uh, do, do you start out with a title, or. . .
john: sometimes. there's no set-
kjhk: or do you write a song and then you, you realize what, what the theme is and, and then decide to put it in the "alpha" series or-
john: back and forth. i mean there's no. . . sometimes i start with a title, sometimes i start with just lyrics. i mean, more often these days i start with a title. um, but uh, but i didn't use to, ya know? but i write differently now. for the last, well no. for the two albums that i'm presently working on, right? i uh, i was working more intentionally than i usually do. i was, ya know, meaning to do a specific thing with a specific song with a specific sequence of them, and so, um, i would write down a title and then work, and then ya know, i would have the title in my mind for a couple of weeks knowing what i wanted to do with it. um, whereas i used to just sit down with a guitar, find out whether the muse was on me, and if it was, start writing, and then throw a title on it somewhere in the middle, but, but now i usually start with a title.
kjhk: you have, you have two albums in the works right now?
john: yeah, well there's one that's done and canned and it'll--i just got the cd-r back in the mail, uh, uh the other day, and it'll be out on june the 10th, um and then i'm almost finished writing--
kjhk: that won't be on ajax, though?
john: no, uh, ajax is closed.
kjhk: right.
john: uh, it'll be on emperor jones.
kjhk: okay.
john: and it will be out on june the 10th, and i've seen the cover proofs and it's really gorgeous, um, and it's really good, i gotta say. it's got uh, uh, three guests. it's got alistair galbraith again on two songs, just, knocked, knocked one of them clean out of the park, uh, and then peter hughes and bob durkee help out on two others, and it sounds really good.
kjhk: that, that takes care of another question i had. brad rose from tulsa, oklahoma wanted me to ask you if, if he'll-peter hughes-that is, will be playing on the new album?
john: ya, he's on two songs.
kjhk: he toured europe with you?
john: yes he did, twice.
kjhk: twice?
john: yeah. in the spring and then in the fall.
kjhk: how did that tour go?
john: uh, the first one went pretty great; the second one went pretty awful.
kjhk: pretty awful?
john: yeah, i mean except for sweden, um and for me, i went over to the united kingdom and the republic of ireland, and that was great! i mean, but uh, ya know, we're in kansas. . . i think i can safely say that we should re-bomb germany here without fear of offending anybody.
kjhk: (laughter)
john: uh, peter and i get-i got fed up with germany in the spring. peter didn't, uh, but he saw what i meant in the fall. it was just disastrous. we lost money, basically--
kjhk: oh wow
john: --is why it was bad. um, and you don't tour for the pleasure of it, at least i don't. and peter doesn't, i mean, ya know, he gave up a good paying job, because we made good money in the spring, so he thought, "well, i'll make more!" right? but it didn't work out that way. at all. it was bad. but, uh, but then ireland was soooo good for me that it made the whole thing worth while. i mean, ireland was amazing, and scotland was pretty good, and england was all right.
kjhk: you don't enjoy touring?
john: um, i do and i don't, ya know, i mean, i've gotten so used to it because i've been, ya know, i spent four or five months on the road in the past year, and i'm the sort of person who, ya know, if i'm doing something for a long period of time, i'm going to wind up liking it to a certain extant, and i'm not the kind of person who can bare a grudge against my current circumstances for very long, ya know, i will give in rather than, rather than make a change. ha! so, so i mean it's all right. it has, it has it's great points. ya know stockholm, sweden uh, was a show that was so good, that, that i would do the whole tour again just to do that show. i mean, it was just amazing, and i'm uh, i'm revered as a god in sweden, and i really like that, so. . .
kjhk: was that before or after you named the album sweden?
john: well they liked me-uh, i got my first mail when they had heard rumors that there was going to be an album called sweden, but they already liked me. but, uh, but they went pretty nutty after sweden came out. i mean, there's about ten people, these friends, that will show up at any show in sweden, and they go completely ballistic. they're great! they're just out of their minds.
kjhk: yeah, i'm, i'm on the inland list and i, i saw the post about--
john: join. . .
kjhk: yeah, being an honorary inductee into the inland empire
john: the country? the whole country is all a member of the inland empire. yeah
kjhk: wow. uh, how did you first start putting out tapes?
john: uh, dennis callaci heard what i was doing and asked me to make him a tape and i made a little, i just recorded some songs and then i made a little mock-up sleeve, just to be cute, ya know? and then the next time i saw him, he gave me ten copies. i was very surprised, but kind of embarrassed, um, ya know, 'cause i really didn't think-i didn't know what he was doing. i heard he was doing some sort of a label but i was not hooked into any underground at all. i had sort of given-up all aspirations of being successful, which i recommend to anybody, right, that if you want to, if you want to make a living at music, i would say the first thing you gotta do is abandon that idea. just throw it away, and forget it, and concentrate on other things, and set other goals for yourself, because it's only when, you really, if asked, would say, "no, i don't think i want that" that you get anything. (laughter) and, i think if i had made a big run at it, then i wouldn't even have any records out, but as it was i was sort of ambiguous about the whole process for all the way up through the first ajax album, and ya know, at that point, then it gets kind of addictive, right?
kjhk: uh, i was gonna ask you something about recording.
john: uh-huh.
kjhk: how do you record? that's probably changed through the. . .
john: yeah, uh, i'm still using the same machine, uh that, that i made taboo vi with-you don't have that, do ya?
kjhk: uh, no, as a matter of fact i don't.
john: [whispering:] good, good, good, good, good. [full voice:] no one should own that. it's not very good.
kjhk: i'm, i'm in the process of trying to accumulate that.
john: well, you won't get it from me! (laughter)
[voice in the background, maybe a cassette tape]: and dennis has put out. . .
kjhk: you won't be selling copies of that tonight?
john: no, no. no, i haven't, i don't think i've ever sold copies of that. (laughter) maybe the first show we ever played out of town in san francisco, but, but, no, it's not any good. you don't want it. i mean, uh, but uh, although there will be a sequel to it (laughter) but. . .
kjhk: taboo iv?
john: i'm big onto sequels these days. i'm, uh, i'm, uh, ya know, rather than, uh, the album that's coming out is called full force galesburg and it's not a sequel to anything, and there's no, uh, a sequel to sweden was written, but probably won't ever be released, um, it was written and recorded, but, but i'm into the idea of, of making, making records that sort of answer any questions raised by the predecessor. in the works are answers to taboo vi and the second tape, uh, the hound chronicles, so. the sequel to the hound chronicles will just destroy the memory of the hound chronicles, by uh. . .
kjhk: you don't like that tape?
john: well, it's good. it's all right. i mean, i don't think i sing very well on it at all. i mean, i really think i can sing now, ya know. . .
kjhk: that has some of my favorite mountain goats songs on it.
john: so ya hit some good songs, but i really don't think i was, i was the man to deliver them at that point, in my life-
kjhk: right
john: i sound awfully--i didn't have much range, and uh, ya know i think that like the, the new version of "going to kansas" which uh, the vocals got a little buried, but um,
kjhk: yeah,
john: but, and the new version of the song from the first seven inch, uh, "alpha double negative: going to catalina" that were on the last ajax album, are just vast improvements over the originals, ya know, so, 'cause i'm a better singer now.
kjhk: will there be more of those-
john: i don't think so.
kjhk: in the sequels, will you be doing-
john: well, i'm not working with rachel any more so there really wouldn't be any, any cause for recasting them. i mean, it would be me doing them on a guitar again, only doing it better, which, i mean, ya know, i don't think that's a valid enough reason. i think recasting them with bass and second vocals and everything was reason enough to redo them, but for me to do them by myself wouldn't make sense.
kjhk: that was another question i was going to ask you, is, what happened to the bright mountain choir?
john: well, i mean, they all moved. that was all fairly early, uh, ya know, amy moved to new york, and sarah moved way up into the hills of uh, uh, of los angeles, and ya know, the bright mountain choir just barely even existed. actually, all four of them only ever sang together with me once at a party. right-- (laughter)
kjhk: really?
john:--there's various permutation of them appear. sometimes it's rachel and amy. uh, on the hound chronicles it's uh, sarah and rosanne mostly. um, so, uh, let's see here. yeah, amy moved to new york and that was pretty much the end of that. but,
kjhk: okay.
john: you won't find them listed, i don't think after uh, after the first single.
kjhk: and, and rachel?
john: losin' it?
kjhk: is she, is she going to be on the new album?
john: no, no.
kjhk: neither of the new albums?
john: no, it's all boys this time.
kjhk: it's all boys.
john: it's all about boys! (laughter) no it's uh, the new album's mostly me and uh, any collaboration was done through the mail, um this time. i send stuff out to bob durkee
kjhk: why?
john: i recorded some of with bob durkee then i. . .
kjhk: and alistair galbraith recorded through the mail again?
john: yeah, in new zealand and then he, uh, sent them to bob.
kjhk: same way you guys did the seven inch?
john: yeah, yeah, it's a good way to do it. it's really great, because that way, there's, there's zero pressure. do we have to go somewhere or something? um, ok, um there's no pressure on the person who's doing the addition. he has like, even if he says, "i'll get it to you in a hurry" he really has all the time in the world 'cause he's got the goods, right, and uh, and besides which, he can sit around thinking about it without you around. ya know, i think collaborating in the studio with somebody would be hard because they'd be there watching you and stuff, so. . .
kjhk: right, right, um, i was going to ask you about cover songs.
john: uh-huh.
kjhk: you've covered songs, uh, by lionel richie, hank williams, andrew loyd webber, ace of base, robert johnson, uh, refrigerator, and you have a michael jackson cover coming out on a compilation?
john: no, i know the compilation you're talking about, but they, they asked and asked but i didn't do anything.
kjhk: okay.
john: so i think they may release a song, that isn't a michael jackson cover, or they might have taped me at sound check, but uh, belgium and the netherlands, these people are nuts. (laughter) and they're really into the tape thing.
kjhk: you might want to be careful what you're saying. we are broadcast over the internet and there's an outside chance they might be listening.
john: oh, they know they're nuts. they (laughter). . . it's alright. . . (laughter). . . i think they enjoy the nuttiness. and i like holland, pretty much better than most places in europe anyway. the dutch are nice people and i think their language is gorgeous. but they are nuts, and they know they're nuts, but uh, but uh, yeah, they asked, wio is the name of the guy i think,
kjhk: right.
john: uh, who is doing the michael jackson cover.
kjhk: studio mussel, is it?
john: i guess, i, but uh, you should see him live, 'cause he's just awesome! i mean, it's like you bond with this guy immediately, but, uh, i didn't ever get around to recording anything. if he's got anything it would be from a sound check in dordrecht [sp?] uh,
kjhk: okay, i was going to ask what all those artists have in common?
john: well, you left out steely dan.
kjhk: did i?
john: yeah.
kjhk: when, when did you cover a steely dan-
john: on sweden.
kjhk: on sweden?
john: "fm"
kjhk: oh, that's a steely dan song?
john: yeah
kjhk: oh, that's a good song.
john: yeah, it's uh, it's uh, i mean the steely dan song is a lot better, it's a lot more complicated, but uh, but complicated doesn't mean better, but their version is really good. it's from the sound track to a failed, failed, failed movie called "fm" and uh, it's uh, yeah hard to get, except now you can buy the greatest hits.
kjhk: okay. uh, what do all those artists have in common?
john: i dunno, i like their songs.
kjhk: really? (laughter) they're great songs?
john: ya know, i don't, i don't pick a cover because of the artist who does it, as a general rule. i pick it 'cause i like the song.
kjhk: so you're attracted to songs more than the artists?
john: yeah, generally speaking. uh, no, not just generally speaking. yes! i mean, i pick the song if i like the song.
kjhk: would you say that list of people is representative of your musical influences?
john: uuuuuuuuuuuum, i dunno, influence is such a funny question, because i really believe strongly in influence, ya know, and in picking out influence, and i think people who claim not to be influenced are, are horrible liars but i think probably are more fit to judge who influences me than i am. 'cause there's what i really love listening to, um and then there's what influences me and i don't know, i mean, i love to listen to joni mitchel's blue album. i don't think i've written anything that sounds even remotely like anything off of that record. and i love propagandi. i've been listening to propagandi non-stop for about a year. um, you won't hear any sign of propagandi (laughter) or anything in anything i ever record, but uh, so i really don't know who influences me. i listened to a lot of blues, when i was-probably stuff i listened to when i was thirteen and fourteen, like blues stuff and a lot of lou reed and david bowee. i think i get what pompousness i have (laughter) from listening to david bowee. and uh, lyrically, i think i'm a lot more influenced by writers than by, then by musicians.
kjhk: by writers?
john: yeah.
kjhk: what kind of writers?
john: faulkner. i used to read a lot of. joan didion, um, uh, catullus, petronius, who else? who else do i like? who's coming? oh, there.
kjhk: come on in, joe.[?] do you have any questions?
joe [?]: uh, no.
kjhk: that you want to ask?
joe [?]: no, just coming by to say hi.
john: mostly joan didion, is a big influence. um, i mean, although, i'm not as good as she is. but, uh, i'd like to be as terse as she is.
kjhk: [pause] okay, um.
john: one starts being terse by cutting off sentences abruptly.
kjhk: do you have any questions, joe?
joe [?]: no, no.
kjhk: okay, how do you, how do think these writers influence uh, your songs?
john: okay, i can answer this. it's not very interesting, and it might take a little while, but i can answer this.
kjhk: okay.
john: um, writing--i can't stand. . . .[shuffling in background] writing is about world of views, right? a story is hardly even the point of any given novel or short story or poem. what a short story or novel or poem or text, right, is about, is about explaining how the universe seems, not necessarily to the person writing but seems to voice that writes, to "the hand that writes" is what roland brynes [sp????] would say, right? so, um, so all you do when you write over and over again, right? uh, endlessly, is express what you think the connections are, how it all comes to have narrative, right, because, because you gotta impose narrative on things-you touched my guitar!
kjhk: (laughter)
john: oh my god! oh my god! who gave you permission? no, i'm kidding, uh, so, so when you write you express a world view, right? you explain what you think the connections are. there may or may not be any connections, right? and that's what makes for tragedy, is, is trying to impose connections where there are none; trying to state cause and effect where cause and effect do not exist, right? cause and effect really can't be proven much in human behavior, but, but, uh, but we always want to have it that way, because if we can't have a narrative, then our lives are going to seem pointless and then we're going to go on killing sprees, right? (laughter) so we gotta have narrative, but there isn't any narrative, and what any individual piece of work is about, is the attempt to put order on chaos, right? comedy does it in one way and tragedy does it in another. i think i work more in tragedy, although tragedy doesn't necessarily mean it's not funny. nor does comedy necessarily mean it's funny. um, what was the question?
kjhk: (laughter) it was about writers influencing your songs.
john: yeah, so, so right. joan didion, um is all about the imposition of narrative, right? joan didion is, is all, all her heroines usually, or heroes, occasionally come to a point where they realize that the story that they're playing out in their lives is not the story they're actually implicated in. right, and uh, sometimes they catch a glimpse of what the other story might be or become faintly cognizant of the fact that there is no story, right? and that's the mode of high terror, right? ya know, and uh, that's the point at which, uh, really there's a lot at risk. if, if you don't feel it's ever been about anything, that's the point at which you're going to sink into despair and uh, and joan didion is really really acute in realizing that, and so is eschulus, but in eschulus, everybody goes ahead and dies. right, whereas in joan didion people go ahead and live because it's twentieth century literature and that's one of the interesting things about (laughter) twentieth century literature, is that you don't have the option of just killing off all your characters.
kjhk: um, another question i was going to ask you is, is that sound, on so many of your songs, before and after-
john: it's the guitar. (laughter)
kjhk: no, no, no, no. not that sound!
john: ha, ha, ha.
kjhk: you know the sound i'm talking about?
john: uh, the wheel-grind?
kjhk: yeah.
john: yeah.
kjhk: what is that?
john: that's wheel-grind.
kjhk: it's the tape you're recording on-
john: yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a very cheap tape deck. well, it's not that cheap, but pretty cheap. and it's old, and it's beat-up. and so, that's the sound that it makes and it records itself making a sound whenever you record anything with it.
joe [?]: i heard that particular box broke.
john: actually, ya know, it's the funniest box in the world. because, uh, it breaks, then it's not broken, and i don't fix it or anything. it like, ya know, it breaks and i try and work with it and it just gets worse and i throw it in the corner and i say "to hell with you" and don't record anything for a long time, then i pull it out two months later and it sounds fine, sometimes better than it sounded before. right now it sounds fine, but i just bought a new tape-deck, so . . .
joe [?]: so the article in magnet was wrong.
john: uh, that article in magnet was attempting to put a little more narrative on things then actually exists. so actually, that plays right into the previous point, which is a point you should not have gotten me onto, because i wrote my whole, i wrote two theses about this. not one, but two. one in english and one in classics and i'm big into the idea that we all need narrative and we can't-none of us have it actually, unless we're willing to abandon our american demand for honesty, right? which i don't think is a bad thing, right? but, but if you want to be honest, none of it makes sense, right? and if none of it makes sense then you don't have any moral or ethical obligations, right? and then, well, why don't you have everything you want? and, and this leads us into some terrifying dark corners of the mind, and that's just interesting and i'd like to say that these are only things that i think about. my day to day life is mundane and plain and i like it that way, ya know, and these are just things to think about. i don't think they have any baring on what you actually do in your life. you plant things and eat them and you refrain from eating meat.
kjhk: refrain from what?
john: eating meat, because that's what evil people do.
kjhk: that's funny that you mention that. i feel the same way.
john: hey! my man! i'm glad. i was kind of hoping you'd be offended but i'm glad you're not.
kjhk: no, as a matter of fact, no. i'm quite-
john: if there's any non-vegitarians out there. . . you're on the road to hell. stop eating meat. thank you.
joe [?]: i'll see you there.
john: (laughter) [strums his guitar] so i would play a smiths song now, but i don't know that song.
kjhk: (laughter) uh. . .
john: yeah, i don't know what to play. um, lemme
see here. . . [strums guitar]. . . (sigh) what key is that in?
[more strumming] i don't know if i actually know that one. that's
brand new. um, maybe i should probably play something i know,
um. . . [starts to play the following song. . . ]
[weekend in western illinois] the land's opening up like a blanket, and the dandelions spread themselves thickly out along the fields, which are, evidently, endless. and we are hotly in love with one another. we've got an unquenchable thirst in our throats. we are, for some reason, all the time, bleeding. and we are friendless. but we love these dogs that roll on the lawns here in galesburg, because they seem to know something nobody else knows. it is written on the smiles on their faces, and it rings in their high young voices, and we are burning up all of our choices out here where the tall grass grows, up here in galesburg. the sky's opening up like an old wound, and the rain on our bodies is warm tonight, and the ground underneath us shakes in the cracking thunder. and we can taste fresh blood in our mouths again: there is no chance of getting enough of it, and we tally up all our possessions, and we are going under. but we love these dogs that loll in the rain here in galesburg, as the new season rocks them in its terrible arms. yeah they howl as though the world were ending, and we are watching the sky unwinding and some of our promises were binding up here where our dreams take form up here in galesburg.
kjhk: (clapping)
john: thanks.
kjhk: is that, is that the namesake of the full force galesburg?
john: well, it's one of the songs. a lot of the songs, all the songs on that one are somehow or another connected, sometimes really loosely, uh, but, but it is the one song that mentions it, yeah. it's called "weekend in western illinois."
kjhk: weekend in western illinois.
john: yeah.
kjhk: and galesburg is a town in western illinois?
john: it's a town near the, uh, iowa / illinois border.
kjhk: great.
john: i like border towns. i'm really fascinated with border towns. if you get uh, the uh, one sheet from emperor jones about the record, they talk a lot about brownesville texas, which i've always been fascinated by.
kjhk: which is on the border of. . .
john: texas and mexico.
kjhk: mexico.
john: it's not on the border, but it's near enough that it's a place you can hang out if you're waiting to hop borders for some reason or another.
kjhk: why the fascination with borders?
john: uuuuh. because i'm roman catholic, ya know? i mean, and it's all about borders. and again, everything's all about borders. ya know, i mean you are the sum of what you won't do, sort of. and so. . .
kjhk: okay.
john: you see how that plays into-that, that has something to do with borders? i mean, your limitations are, are what define you.
kjhk: right.
john: in a large, large way.
kjhk: okay.
john: although in the nineties we're not supposed to say that. we're supposed to say that we're all about potential, but potential isn't anything. i mean, ya know, potential is i think, a ridiculous concept, almost. ya know, it's, it's all about "thou shalt nots" not about "thou shalts" because there aren't any "thou shalts." right? there's only what you can't do. and the rest of it is nebulous and undefined and, and uh, and a lot of people see hope in that, and there is hope in that, but, but it's not, um, oh i don't wanna, i don't wanna, i haven't really thought the matter through there so i probably shouldn't get started.
kjhk: okay. did you want to play another song?
john: sure.
kjhk: um.
john: [slides hand down fret board and strums a little] i don't know what though. uhhhhh. . . i know, i'll play a song that, uh, are you into discothi-q at all?
kjhk: yeah.
john: okay, well, i wrote a song, and then they covered
it and i decided not to do it. right, um, that they could just
have it, right? and it's on their first album and it's called
"tulsa imperative."
[tulsa imperative] your momma's failed wheat field is a good place to lie down together. three weeks deep into the guts of summer, we sweat like hogs, and i felt light as a feather. i saw a disk-like object reflected in your eye. and the noise grew louder as we looked up to the sky. and the sleek silver body, headlights along the side. and the sleek silver body, headlights all underneath. i remember the warm air, blowing in our faces. i remember the heat running through me. there was no one worth telling. there was nothing we could do. and i was real quiet as i took the keys from the kitchen table. i was looking right at you! and your hand brushed against mine yeah, and it shook me inside. all along the night sky i watched our futures collide. and the car's new headlights cut through the darkness. as the oil dripped silently to the pavement underneath. i can remember the warm air burning our faces. i remember the heat running through me.
kjhk: [clapping]
john: thanks.
kjhk all right, thanks. did you. . . wanna play another song?
john: sure, why not? um, but i don't have anything prepared. so lemme think. see, then i have to think! so you should talk while i think or something.
kjhk [and voices in background]: ok, well uh tullgrew [?] is up next. why don't you bring andy in here? i think andy has, has something to say, about next week's show. andy, come in. talk about next week's show. andy, what, what do we have going on next week, since we didn't get to anything today.
john: (laughter)
andy: the show is a couple hours!
kjhk: well, uh, has that been confirmed?
andy: no, no.
kjhk: well, scratch that from the record.
andy: (laughter) we're kidding. it will be two hours in the realm of things, if you're in the same time warp.
kjhk: we'll be getting around to a lot of requests.
andy: let me start my, um, my um, lou barlow and jason lowenstein, uh segments on "the lo-fi aesthetic" next week. i've got them edited into five minute segments.
kjhk: and we'll be playing that throughout the next-
andy: start, start the first segment next week.
kjhk: and that'll last about four or five weeks?
andy: i think so, yes.
kjhk: k.
andy: and keep bringing us your tapes. i'm still trying to organize another cover contest.
kjhk: all right!
andy: um, so uh, that'll be it. thanks john, for coming in.
john: oh my god. talk for a minute.
kjhk: okay, what's going on in the community here? john is uh, john is. . .
andy: skatepark benefit started at 3:30.
kjhk:. . . enthused about the uh, harey carey singing the national anthem right now.
john [in background]: no! it was "take me out to the ball game!"
kjhk: oh, i'm sorry. "take me out to the ball game." uh, if we had the technologies, we'd, we'd put that out over the air for you. uh, do we have a score, for the baseball game out there?
[voices in backgroung]: it's an exhibition. they're losing, they're losing to oakland.
andy: anyhow, today in the community, um, we've got, um, the skate park benefit out at south park that started at um, 3:30. and um, the lawrence skate association. i highly encourage you to go out there and support the uh, the. . .
john: the chicago cubs you should support!
kjhk: support the chicago cubs. so you're a big baseball fan.
john: yeah, yeah my fix for this year are cubs and mariners.
kjhk: cubs and mariners.
john: yeah.
kjhk: now you, you spent a lot of time in california.
john: yeah, a long, long time.
kjhk: how did you become a cubs fan?
john: they're the greatest team in the history of the game! what can i say?
kjhk: were you a cubs fan in california?
john: i was a cubs fan when i was in the forth grade and i read in my weekly reader, there was a story, ya know, a little-you remember my weekly reader, the little-it was a newspaper.
andy: yeah, i remember.
john: it's like the teacher-you had to learn to read the newspaper, ya know, so you got used to the idea, and uh, and uh, there was an article about a guy-you know this story or no?
khjk: no.
john: well, there was an article
[at this point my cassette ran out of tape. the guys
at kjhk told me that there were a few more minutes left, and they
said they'd try and get me a complete tape. whenever i get that,
i'll send along the rest of the transcription. -j.m.]